...
I mean, since we get nothing but solid lies from our media, you should be listening to either one or both of these guys at least once in a while so you can get a better idea of what is more plausibly true. I'm pretty sure we can stick to MacGregor interviews for this, but he doesn't get into the weeds of Clown World quite the way the Alexes do, and maybe we do not want to be taken by total surprise because we couldn't bear to listen.
pipe up any time....
